In Depth Conversation with Amy Raphael

It was followed by A Seat at the Table: Women on the Frontline of Music in 2019 in which she interviewed more women from the music industry about #MeToo, social media, queer politics and the nuances of everyday misogyny. A Game of Two Halves: Famous Football Fans Meet Their Heroes, with forewords by Gary Lineker and Raheem Sterling, raised money for The UN Refugee Agency.

Most recently, Raphael worked as music consultant on Sally Wainwright’s hit BBC drama, Riot Women and is currently interviewing an array of influential female voices for the untold story of women in film, set to be published in 2028. Through this epic undertaking and her mission throughout her career, Raphael’s work has provided an essential space for women to speak openly in acknowledgment of their invaluable contribution, particularly in industries that have relentlessly overlooked a woman’s worth.

We had the pleasure of sitting down for an exploratory conversation with Raphael to discuss her multi-faceted career, the lessons she has learned on selfhood interviewing some of the most legendary names, and why equity in film and music still urgently needs addressing.

Alice Casely-Hayford: You’ve written about music, sport and culture throughout your prolific career, you’ve ghostwritten books and published a number of your own. In your own words, how do you talk about what you do and why you do it?

Amy Raphael: This is deeply uncool, but I blame it all on ABBA, The Movie. I was obsessed with Abba and there's a journalist in the film who gets to meet them. I wanted to be a journalist so I could meet Abba.

I wrote a lot as a kid, but not for anyone else – probably self-indulgent rubbish, but I always had that urge to write. My mum is a retired head teacher so there were loads of books in the house and she took me to the theatre. Creativity was inevitable.

My two great loves have always been film and music. I desperately wanted to work for The NME when I was at school. My mum was desperate for me not to work for The NME and to go to university. So I did English and Italian but the whole time I was at university I was writing for the student paper. Film was something I'd done with my dad, he died when I was 17, but that's deeply ingrained as a shared experience.

I've always been interested in storytelling. I'm a decent listener and I think people trust me. People often tell me their deepest, darkest secrets and then I have to say, please say that's off the record. I like doing things properly and respecting people. I know that sounds really basic, but it's quite rare.

ACH: Having interviewed so many exceptional talents over the years from Kurt Cobain and Danny Boyle to Patti Smith and Mike Leigh, have you seen common threads or themes in terms of how people find a strong sense of self?

AR: That's a really excellent question, but it's a tough one. Everyone's so different. If there’s a three word answer it would be “through creative acts”. And the slightly longer answer would be it's all about interacting with an audience.

You know, from the work of Mike Leigh through to Danny Boyle through to Patti Smith, it's all about creating something that you then put out in the world.

I think it is about those creative choices being positive. I couldn’t work with anybody who was racist or transphobic. I think those creative acts, that sense of self that people get through having those values… it's all about what you give back as well.

ACH: Who have you been most exhilarated to interview or who has left the biggest impact?

AR: A really formative one for me was Courtney Love. I met her when I interviewed her for the cover of The Face and flew to Seattle on Boxing Day 1992. She was the one who told me about all these brilliant feminist writers, like Susan Faludi.

She was surrounded by piles of books, and was thrusting books into my hand saying, have you read this? Have you read this? That just had a massive impact on me – meeting her and spending time with her and her generosity.

I [later] interviewed her for my first book [Never Mind The Bollocks: Women Rewrite Rock]. I love women who have that kind of big, fast brain where you're almost running to keep up. They make you work a little bit harder.

The other person would be Patti Smith. I've only met her a couple of times, but I had an incredible 24 hours with her in Paris. Again, we talked about books. We talked a lot about death because so many people in her life had died. You have conversations when you're doing interviews that you wouldn't have with really good friends. I was only supposed to have an hour with her.

It's really interesting watching a woman like Patti Smith who has not changed the way she looks, the way she talks, the way she performs. She's stayed true to herself. There's been no compromises.

ACH: It's fascinating to hear you talk about some of these icons. Many of them possess a striking sense of self and a commitment to uncompromising values.

Speaking about Patti Smith, Courtney Love, and your two brilliant books on women in music, why did the story of women in music feel so urgent then? You're currently working on a book about women in film. Why does it feel so pertinent today to be writing that?

AR: I mean, that's a PhD thesis, which is why the book is taking so long to write. But when I did Never Mind The Bollocks in the mid-90s, it was because I was working for the music press and there were just no women on the covers. So this was a kind of corrective to that.

Both books gave women a chance to speak as they wanted to be heard rather than having their quotes taken out of context. Whether it was Björk or in the second book, Alison Moyet or Kae Tempest.

With the film book… Jane Campion was the first woman to win the Palme d'or in 1993 and Cannes started in the mid-40s. Kathryn Bigelow was the first woman to win an Academy Award for best director in 2010. The Oscars celebrates its centenary in 2028. Women have been making films. It's just all about visibility.

ACH: It’s totally depressing. Do you think meaningful progress has been made in recent years?

AR: It's very hard to tell and I've interviewed a lot of producers for the book and most of them seem to think that it is much better for women. But then I've talked to everybody else and they seem to think it's not that different.

The good thing is you can’t stop brilliant women making films or making music and good luck to anyone who tries to stop them because they’re not going to be stopped.

ACH: Speaking of these brilliant women, who do you think is really challenging the status quo in a meaningful way?

AR: Geena Davis has been doing it for ever, Meryl Streep has been doing it forever. Jennifer Lawrence is brilliant. All of these women speak up regardless. But it’s also about the work you make.

There’s a film called Saint Omer by Alice Diop which is based on a true story of a Senegalese immigrant accused in a French court of murdering her young daughter. It addresses race, culture, colonialism, who has the power to decide what is right and wrong. It’s one of the most moving films I’ve ever seen. I think anything that leads you to having discussions and conversations…

ACH: You’re so right. The work that you choose to put out is as important as what you say. Lastly, how would you describe your own sense of self-worth today?

AR: I think you have to have strong self-worth to write because I’m basically choosing the women who go in my book. I’m deciding whose work I think has value. Surely I must be confident to do that? I’m writing for the Guardian, for a German newspaper for whoever else and saying I think this is a good film so clearly I have that kind of self-worth but I think like many women, if somebody’s nasty, it falls apart very quickly. When my hormones are bad and my menopause is not behaving, I kind of think should I be doing this? Who am I to think this? But I definitely have a core of strong self-worth and I feel very grounded in that though it wobbles sometimes!